Q&A with Christina Thakor-Rankin ahead of ‘Count Me In’ conferences

The ‘Count Me In’ conferences are back again this year and in more places, than ever. In 2022, Jo Abergel and Adrian Sladdin launched the ‘Count Me In’ brand, which focused on Diversity, Equity, Inclusion and Belonging (DEIB) conferences in Gibraltar. Since then, they have run further conferences in London and Gibraltar, with support from the Association for Project Management (APM).

The core mission of Count Me In is turning words into action, with its events serving as an opportunity to listen to experts and access their top advice, training, and resources. Christina Thakor-Rankin, ‘Count Me In’ Conference Chair and Co-Founder of the All-In Diversity Project, shared her thoughts on the importance of DEIB and her experiences with it.

What is your background, and how has it impacted your view of DEIB?

“My background is in gambling and up until the age of 40 I would walk into a room, and I would be the only one who looked like me, the only woman, the only person of colour, the only person under the age of 50. That was the world I grew up in. I had been told from the start that this was a challenging industry at the best of times and that I should steel myself to face every ism in the book - I expected to be treated differently because I was completely different to all my peers.

“Where my perceptions and experiences changed was with the All-In diversity project. Working alongside a fellow female promoting diversity, equity and inclusion, I did not expect different treatment, but that’s exactly what happened. It was probably the first time I consciously understood what different (lesser or discriminatory) treatment was. Up until All-in, I had no one and nothing to compare my experiences with. It made me realise that people take these acronyms like DEI and use them for purpose-washing. They'll go in there and throw acronyms around and say, "I support this," but their behaviours don't.

“In one way acronyms are helpful because they allow people to engage in a conversation and identify with other like-minded individuals. The downside is we risk it just becoming a label or a tagline. And when that happens, it becomes very easy to dismiss it.”

What diversities are underrepresented in the UK?

“If there’s one single group underrepresented globally it’s those who are physically less able. I think as a society, we've taken the easy route to tackling ‘disability’ and said, well, let's focus on invisible things such as neurodiversity, which requires us to make adjustments but that does not require us to make structural changes, to our offices and our premises and transport which come at a real cost and which for me is a bit of a cop-out. We can use the fact that there is a greater acceptance of hybrid working where people don't necessarily have to be in the office to create pathways for people who have challenges accessing our spaces or workspaces physically.”

Are we over-concerned with numbers and percentages with DEIB?

“I think yes and no. There has to be some mechanism for measuring progress, otherwise, how do we know what we've done has had any impact? But it can also become box-ticking, we've hit a number now we can kind of stand down and stop worrying about it.

“A good way of understanding whether you have a culture where people feel valued and respected is to look at your attrition levels. The other thing is just take a look around you. Do your employees reflect wider society?  If you don't see a scattering of females or a scattering of people of colour and you don't see a single person with a disability, that tells you perhaps you need to do a little bit more, to use different measures of success.”

What are the benefits of the ‘Count Me In’ conference?

“To ask challenging and difficult questions which people might not feel comfortable asking in a more open forum. I think the worst thing that can happen is we do nothing because people are too scared to say or do the wrong thing. We see it time and again - people want to do something but are scared of the consequences of getting it wrong, especially in a world where one small misstep can result in the wrath of social media crashing down on you. So, we provide a platform, a community and a support network that allows people to ask difficult questions, provide support and share best practices and experiences.”

Alongside the ‘Count Me In’ conference how does All-in support DEIB?

“We have produced a free standard, which helps organisations and individuals answer that question and it has a tool kit at the back in the appendices. So if you've never done it before, you can pick up this document and you can take away and implement three things immediately.”

The free standard 

Final comments ‘All in’ & their commitment to DEIB?

“I think when it comes to a general comment about DEIB or DIA, it is. We can use labels. We can have policies, we can have practices which all come down to one very simple thing. You treat everybody in the organisation with the same level of respect and in the same way, you expect to be treated yourself. And if that is your only policy for DEI, it will work. ”

 

Caroline Brooks, Head of HR at APM shared her thoughts on the importance of DEIB within APM.

“APM has a vision of ‘A world in which all projects succeed’ for the public benefit. If we don’t have an environment which enables rather than creates barriers for people, we won’t achieve that. Our CEO describes it as making changes that are ‘vital for some, valuable for all’, when we make changes to accommodate those who feel most alienated, it’s usually a better offer for everyone. We want to reflect the society we live in and create a world where everyone can show up safely, contribute and make a difference”.

“Honestly, the Count Me In community has been a huge support for me, both professionally and personally. I've been lucky enough to attend and even speak at the Count Me In conferences, which has been an incredible experience. It’s not just about the learning, though that’s been invaluable, but also about the networking and the sense of community. I’ve had the chance to connect with experts, see what other organisations are doing to become more inclusive, and, most importantly, ask questions in a safe and open space. That kind of environment is so important, especially when you're navigating inclusion and diversity in the workplace.”

In 2025, the conferences will expand into new locations, including the Isle of Man and Ireland, while continuing in London and Gibraltar. Jo and Adrian are eager to welcome new delegates to each of these events. As usual, there will be our traditional keynote speakers, panels, diversity clinics, and round tables, and they would be delighted if APM members could join any of the four conferences this year.

APM members can use the code APM10 for a 10% discount on tickets or membership at www.diversitycommunity.org.